Re: New guy here!

[Paul Giverin]

In message <2t082iF1q4iv0U1@uni-berlin.de>, rob1
<invalid.email@notsogood.invalid> writes
>Hi everyone,
> Im kinda new here, been lurking for a few weeks (possibly posted
>once) but I thought I'd introduce myself! I'm Rob, I'm 20, and I'm
>interested in learning more about how a car works - I have a *very*
>crude understanding of it so far but really want to figure out how the
>stuff works without blowing myself up, wrecking my car, or doing
>something really badly against the law!
>
>I'm aiming at being able to fix bits on my car, and being able to help
>other people out with theirs - or at least figure out whether the
>garage is giving me BS: "Your sump is leaking, fixing it will cost
>about 200 quid, but we might snap your exhaust, which will be
>expensive", or "Its not the parts thats cost the money, its the labour"
>
>
Hi Rob,

As I sure you'll appreciate that it will take time to gain experience
but everyone is capable of basic tasks like changing your oil and
filter, spark plugs and air filter which are the basic servicing items.

After a little while, task like changing brake pads and discs will be
within your capability. You need to get a Haynes manual for the car you
own and you can then use the book to identify various parts of your car
which will give you a better understanding of how things work.

You will learn about greasing nuts and bolts to make them easier to come
off next time. You will learn about the things that you shouldn't
grease. You will learn about using penetrating oil to help loosen off
seized nuts and bolts. You will learn about the need to torque load
various bolts to avoid over tightening them and snapping them/

You will need some tools too. This *can* be expensive but if you buy
carefully they will last for many years. If you buy really cheap tools
you may end up buying them again next year. A set of metric combination
spanners and a metric socket set should be your first purchase. Many
people here reckon that the "Halfords Professional" range of tools are
good tools. You will need trolley jacks, axle stands and ramps if you
need to work underneath the car but you may be able to borrow these
until you can afford to buy your own.

>Apologies if this is the wrong group for my questions.
>
Nope....... exactly the right group. I'm sure others will be along with
good advice.

--
Paul Giverin

British Jet Engine Website http://www.britjet.co.uk

[rob1]

Paul Giverin wrote:

> Hi Rob,
>
> As I sure you'll appreciate that it will take time to gain experience
> but everyone is capable of basic tasks like changing your oil and
> filter, spark plugs and air filter which are the basic servicing items.

Yeah, thats the thing that worries me a bit. I darent pull the thing apart
without experience because I dont know what I might inadvertantly break.
Then again, the "simple" jobs are a good place to start, and hopefully quite
cheap to fix if (when?) I go wrong.

> After a little while, task like changing brake pads and discs will be
> within your capability. You need to get a Haynes manual for the car you
> own and you can then use the book to identify various parts of your car
> which will give you a better understanding of how things work.

I just bid on a haynes manual on ebay

> You will learn about greasing nuts and bolts to make them easier to come
> off next time. You will learn about the things that you shouldn't
> grease. You will learn about using penetrating oil to help loosen off
> seized nuts and bolts. You will learn about the need to torque load
> various bolts to avoid over tightening them and snapping them/

Now thats something I really need to find out about. My nuts keep siezing.
Does that sounds bad?

> You will need some tools too. This *can* be expensive but if you buy
> carefully they will last for many years. If you buy really cheap tools
> you may end up buying them again next year. A set of metric combination
> spanners and a metric socket set should be your first purchase. Many
> people here reckon that the "Halfords Professional" range of tools are
> good tools. You will need trolley jacks, axle stands and ramps if you
> need to work underneath the car but you may be able to borrow these
> until you can afford to buy your own.

Cool. I dont have any of the tools at the moment, but I do have a trolley
jack. Quite a good one apparently that my grandparents gave me. They were
going to give me their ramps too, but apparently they can topple or slide
out easily so they're out of my way (thanks to the parents). I think they
might have been sold. Grrrr

>> Apologies if this is the wrong group for my questions.
>>
> Nope....... exactly the right group. I'm sure others will be along with
> good advice.

Brilliant! Thanks for your help!

[AstraVanMan]

> >> Apologies if this is the wrong group for my questions.
> >>
> > Nope....... exactly the right group. I'm sure others will be along with
> > good advice.
>
> Brilliant! Thanks for your help!

Just thought I'd mention that when I got my first car at 17 I didn't have a
clue about the things! A mate of mine helped me with loads of stuff and I
learned a lot from him, and just generally from taking an interest and
reading haynes manuals etc. It's worth mentioning, though, that initially I
didn't even know what a wheel nut was, and my mate suggested checking the
antifreeze in my car (and if there was none in there, putting some in as it
could freeze up and crack the block in cold winters) and I said "what do you
do, splash it over the engine?".

I bet I'm not the only one with previous stories of muppetry like that!

Peter
--
"The truth is working in television is not very glamorous at all. I just go
home on my own at night and sit alone and eat crisps."

[Chris Street]

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:28:11 GMT, AstraVanMan wrote:

>>>> Apologies if this is the wrong group for my questions.
>>>>
>>> Nope....... exactly the right group. I'm sure others will be along with
>>> good advice.
>>
>> Brilliant! Thanks for your help!
>
> Just thought I'd mention that when I got my first car at 17 I didn't have a
> clue about the things! A mate of mine helped me with loads of stuff and I
> learned a lot from him, and just generally from taking an interest and
> reading haynes manuals etc. It's worth mentioning, though, that initially I
> didn't even know what a wheel nut was, and my mate suggested checking the
> antifreeze in my car (and if there was none in there, putting some in as it
> could freeze up and crack the block in cold winters) and I said "what do you
> do, splash it over the engine?".
>
> I bet I'm not the only one with previous stories of muppetry like that!
>
> Peter

I found that dropping a bolt down the camchain tunnel on my bike was a real
good way of learning how the engine works real quick. I had to pull the
entire thing apart, gearclusters as well to get that baaaaastard bolt out!

[rob1]

AstraVanMan wrote:

> my mate suggested checking the
> antifreeze in my car (and if there was none in there, putting some in as it
> could freeze up and crack the block in cold winters) and I said "what do you
> do, splash it over the engine?".
>
> I bet I'm not the only one with previous stories of muppetry like that!

Hehehe!

Almost as bad as one of my old mates. We were 15 and his mum asked him to
check her water/oil/coolant level and then get his dad to help us top up.

He has an interest in cars, and was pretty good when he was around other
people, so she assumed that he would know where a water/oil/coolant tank
was, and his dad would help us top up, what could go wrong?

He looked into the hole where you pour the oil (I'm sure that has some kind
of name), and could see right to the bottom! "Oh no, its empty!" He said,
"I'll have to fix this, no need to bother dad, its an easy job".

So after he filled the oil tank (to the top) with water....

She was not impressed.

[AstraVanMan]

> >> Brilliant! Thanks for your help!
> >
> > Just thought I'd mention that when I got my first car at 17 I didn't
have a
> > clue about the things! A mate of mine helped me with loads of stuff and
I
> > learned a lot from him, and just generally from taking an interest and
> > reading haynes manuals etc. It's worth mentioning, though, that
initially I
> > didn't even know what a wheel nut was, and my mate suggested checking
the
> > antifreeze in my car (and if there was none in there, putting some in as
it
> > could freeze up and crack the block in cold winters) and I said "what do
you
> > do, splash it over the engine?".
> >
> > I bet I'm not the only one with previous stories of muppetry like that!
>
> I found that dropping a bolt down the camchain tunnel on my bike was a
real
> good way of learning how the engine works real quick. I had to pull the
> entire thing apart, gearclusters as well to get that baaaaastard bolt out!

Well once I was doing the clutch on a Mk3 Escort (wish I'd taken it to Mr
Clutch - took me a total of two months on and off to do!) and I got to
tightening the bolts that hold the clutch to the flywheel, and it said the
torques in the haynes manual, but people told me just to tighten them up
well and it'd be fine - all very well if you've got experience, but with a
little 10mm headed bolt I didn't know how little to tighten it. I snapped
the bolt head off, and some people told me not to worry, and that they'd
seen them with only 2 bolts in before. Not wanting to risk the remainder of
the bolt vibrating loose and ****ing things up (unlikely but possible) I did
things properly - took the flywheel off, drilled it out, and bought a torque
wrench to evenly tighten the flywheel bolts (which I definitely didn't want
to take a chance on).

All in all I'm glad I did **** about with cars a lot (and get things wrong)
as it teaches you a lot about how not to do things. And how a lot of
garages probably do do things.

Peter
--
"The truth is working in television is not very glamorous at all. I just go
home on my own at night and sit alone and eat crisps."

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <2t2rtsF1qianqU1@uni-berlin.de>,
rob1 <invalid.email@notsogood.invalid> wrote:
> Yeah, thats the thing that worries me a bit. I darent pull the thing
> apart without experience because I dont know what I might inadvertantly
> break. Then again, the "simple" jobs are a good place to start, and
> hopefully quite cheap to fix if (when?) I go wrong.

If you've got the space, buy an old small engine from a scrappie. Take it
apart, and put it back together. That's the easiest way to learn.

--
*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Guy King]

The message <v7Xad.883$hb7.131@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
from "AstraVanMan" <****Off@WithThanks.com> contains these words:

> I bet I'm not the only one with previous stories of muppetry like that!

My old workshop bordered a public carpark, and one day a woman wandered
over and asked if I could help her. She'd decided to top up her engine
oil - and had put in a gallon, but it still wasn't "full". She was
trying - literally - to fill the engine and was expecting the oil level
to eventually reach the top of the filler hole. Which I suppose
eventually it would have done.

--
Skipweasel.
Being superstitious brings bad luck

[JULIAN HALES]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cfd38f4c6dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <2t2rtsF1qianqU1@uni-berlin.de>,
> rob1 <invalid.email@notsogood.invalid> wrote:
> > Yeah, thats the thing that worries me a bit. I darent pull the thing
> > apart without experience because I dont know what I might inadvertantly
> > break. Then again, the "simple" jobs are a good place to start, and
> > hopefully quite cheap to fix if (when?) I go wrong.
>
> If you've got the space, buy an old small engine from a scrappie. Take it
> apart, and put it back together. That's the easiest way to learn.

thats not the best idea, anyone can do that.

He ought to buy a scrapper, but with a decent engine, THEN take it to
peices, put it back together and she if it starts up! anyone can take a
engine to peices, put it back together, but hey would it fire up? you would
never know..........

> --
> *Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <HObbd.71554$BI5.17778@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
JULIAN HALES <julianhales@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > If you've got the space, buy an old small engine from a scrappie. Take
> > it apart, and put it back together. That's the easiest way to learn.

> thats not the best idea, anyone can do that.

> He ought to buy a scrapper, but with a decent engine, THEN take it to
> peices, put it back together and she if it starts up! anyone can take
> a engine to peices, put it back together, but hey would it fire up? you
> would never know..........

You might have the space and don't care about having a wreck lying around.
Others might. A small engine could go in the garden shed or cellar etc.

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Chris Street]

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:08:52 +0100, Guy King wrote:

> The message <v7Xad.883$hb7.131@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>
> from "AstraVanMan" <****Off@WithThanks.com> contains these words:
>
>> I bet I'm not the only one with previous stories of muppetry like that!
>
> My old workshop bordered a public carpark, and one day a woman wandered
> over and asked if I could help her. She'd decided to top up her engine
> oil - and had put in a gallon, but it still wasn't "full". She was
> trying - literally - to fill the engine and was expecting the oil level
> to eventually reach the top of the filler hole. Which I suppose
> eventually it would have done.

Ummm. Might have come out the dipstick hole first I suppose.

Would have been terribly impressive when cranking it when full though......

[Guy King]

The message <471sp81fyjer.6y11ykpapzlb.dlg@40tude.net>
from Chris Street <venus.ngfb@chris-street.demon.co.uk> contains these words:

> Would have been terribly impressive when cranking it when full though......

Luckily she never got that far - I drained it out for her and gave her a
short course in how to RTFM.

--
Skipweasel.
Being superstitious brings bad luck

[jeremy]

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:22:23 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <HObbd.71554$BI5.17778@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> JULIAN HALES <julianhales@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> > If you've got the space, buy an old small engine from a scrappie. Take
>> > it apart, and put it back together. That's the easiest way to learn.
>
>> thats not the best idea, anyone can do that.
>
>> He ought to buy a scrapper, but with a decent engine, THEN take it to
>> peices, put it back together and she if it starts up! anyone can take
>> a engine to peices, put it back together, but hey would it fire up? you
>> would never know..........
>
>You might have the space and don't care about having a wreck lying around.
>Others might. A small engine could go in the garden shed or cellar etc.

Or to kill two birds with one stone, get an engine the same as in your
car, do the abovementioned and then install it in your car and see if
it goes. That way, for a few hundred quid if you decide to do it
right, you can have a fully rebuilt engine in your car that'll be as
good as new. If you screw it up, well it's gotta be worth the money
for all that you learn. Even if you go the cheap way and just use new
rings, valve stem seals gaskets etc. you'll end up with a very cheap
recon engine.

If you need a budget socket set, the one they sell at argos (yes
that's right) for £20, advertised as 'heavy duty socket set' is
excellent value for money. I used one for 4 years, doing just about
everything on my van (gearbox removal, clutch change, full engine
rebuild....) and it was still in perfect order when the van got
stolen.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <cgbsm0p8rc79npm4nrb9017a12pgt5etfm@4ax.com>,
jeremy <****@spam.no.thanks> wrote:
> >You might have the space and don't care about having a wreck lying
> >around. Others might. A small engine could go in the garden shed or
> >cellar etc.

> Or to kill two birds with one stone, get an engine the same as in your
> car, do the abovementioned and then install it in your car and see if
> it goes. That way, for a few hundred quid if you decide to do it
> right, you can have a fully rebuilt engine in your car that'll be as
> good as new. If you screw it up, well it's gotta be worth the money
> for all that you learn. Even if you go the cheap way and just use new
> rings, valve stem seals gaskets etc. you'll end up with a very cheap
> recon engine.

Could be, although changing an engine isn't that easy without the correct
lifting gear etc.

I was thinking more of a small basic engine just to learn on. So there was
no pressure about breaking something - or indeed spending money when
putting it back together as there wasn't an intention it should run.

Something like an A series or Kent/Vallencia would be my choice and can be
got for near nothing.

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[JULIAN HALES]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cfd4f1ac3dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <HObbd.71554$BI5.17778@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> JULIAN HALES <julianhales@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > > If you've got the space, buy an old small engine from a scrappie. Take
> > > it apart, and put it back together. That's the easiest way to learn.
>
> > thats not the best idea, anyone can do that.
>
> > He ought to buy a scrapper, but with a decent engine, THEN take it to
> > peices, put it back together and she if it starts up! anyone can take
> > a engine to peices, put it back together, but hey would it fire up? you
> > would never know..........
>
> You might have the space and don't care about having a wreck lying around.
> Others might. A small engine could go in the garden shed or cellar etc.
>

Wouldnt be around for long, plus theres other bits on the car to learn
about.


> --
> *Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Warwick]

In article <v7Xad.883$hb7.131@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
****Off@WithThanks.com says...
> > >> Apologies if this is the wrong group for my questions.
> > >>
> > > Nope....... exactly the right group. I'm sure others will be along with
> > > good advice.
> >
> > Brilliant! Thanks for your help!

> I bet I'm not the only one with previous stories of muppetry like that!

The guy who was my best man had it inflicted on him by his passengers.

He runs an MG as a bit of a hobby, he's been doing it up for years and
I'm not sure whether he or the rust is winning. It had a bit of a
coolant issue. Enough that he tanded to have a gallon of water in the
boot and a bucket just in case. He was out in the lake district and
noted the temperature guage climbing so he pulled over, put the last
half litre from his spare in the radiator and sent a couple of the
passengers off with the bucket to a stream he'd noticed as they passed
it a few hundred yards back.

They duly arrive back at the car with a full bucket and being the type
of people who barely recognise an engine and knowing they'd been sent to
get water to cool the engine... Steve says he saw a large cloud of steam
and heard three loud bangs as the engine block cracked fatally.

Warwick