Re: Rove not Guilty??

[John H.]

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:03:37 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:24gjd1t7hpgqpimu2hnedis9sqtkl78300@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 02:07:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:qsnid1tnfpkee5s2r59r6a8kso2kkig15b@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 19:20:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>>>> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:i6nid110u250vs7aqsnmhd6bnraau2pctk@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Why do you suppose your president did nothing to stop the smuggling
>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>WMDs?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Smuggled after the war started, along with all the other looted
>>>>>>>> crap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Wrong answer! Your president knew where the weapons were BEFORE the
>>>>>>>war
>>>>>>>started. He could've arranged for us to stand between those weapons
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>country where he knew they'd end up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You were a soldier. Answer this question: If you commanded a few
>>>>>>>hundred
>>>>>>>soldiers, would you rather drop them into a flat area where they could
>>>>>>>see
>>>>>>>for a few miles in any direction, or into a city like Baghdad?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would drop them where I had the best opportunity of accomplishing
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> assigned
>>>>>> mission.
>>>>>
>>>>>OK. You were a soldier. Imagine designating a 10 mile "thick" band of
>>>>>land
>>>>>along the border between Syria and Iraq. Using reconaissance aircraft,
>>>>>helicopters and ground troops, do you think we could have stopped all,
>>>>>some,
>>>>>or none of the vehicles smuggling weapons?
>>>>>
>>>>>To review: Some, None, or All ???
>>>>>
>>>> *If* we had made an attempt to do so, I would say, "Some, maybe."
>>>
>>>Good. You're saying it's possible. Now: How much political power do you
>>>think Rove would've gained, not just here, but overseas, if we had at
>>>least
>>>tried this, and found one or two shipments of something nasty?
>>>
>>>And (this is a separate question): Why do you think Rove did not try?
>>>
>> Rove wasn't running the war, and those who were didn't have enough
>> foresight to
>> plan for the looting that occurred.
>
>For at least the past 10 years, it's been "old news" that Russian weapons
>stockpiles have been continually looted. Are you suggesting that "those who
>were running the war" were too stupid to expect it to happen in Iraq? How
>does that make you feel about your president and his chums?
>
Now we've come full circle. I was never convinced that the WMD were there when
we started the war, and I've always felt that the biggest mistake we made was in
not planning for the looting.

My feelings for our president and chums? In this regard, they're unchanged. The
looting situation was ineptly handled.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

[Doug Kanter]

"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5qekd1p91b6jipbtqnkoq6s7eqmk7qbeik@4ax.com...

>>For at least the past 10 years, it's been "old news" that Russian weapons
>>stockpiles have been continually looted. Are you suggesting that "those
>>who
>>were running the war" were too stupid to expect it to happen in Iraq? How
>>does that make you feel about your president and his chums?
>>
> Now we've come full circle. I was never convinced that the WMD were there
> when
> we started the war, and I've always felt that the biggest mistake we made
> was in
> not planning for the looting.
>
> My feelings for our president and chums? In this regard, they're
> unchanged. The
> looting situation was ineptly handled.

Perhaps we should agree on the definition of looting. To me, that signifies
private citizens acting as sleazy arms dealers. I wonder if it went higher
than that - heads of government dealing directly with each other. The only
thing that leads me away from that idea is the testimony of so many experts
on bio & chem weapons who said that the stuff Saddam made many years back
would've been either useless or dubious at this point in time.

[John H.]

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:05:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:5qekd1p91b6jipbtqnkoq6s7eqmk7qbeik@4ax.com...
>
>>>For at least the past 10 years, it's been "old news" that Russian weapons
>>>stockpiles have been continually looted. Are you suggesting that "those
>>>who
>>>were running the war" were too stupid to expect it to happen in Iraq? How
>>>does that make you feel about your president and his chums?
>>>
>> Now we've come full circle. I was never convinced that the WMD were there
>> when
>> we started the war, and I've always felt that the biggest mistake we made
>> was in
>> not planning for the looting.
>>
>> My feelings for our president and chums? In this regard, they're
>> unchanged. The
>> looting situation was ineptly handled.
>
>Perhaps we should agree on the definition of looting. To me, that signifies
>private citizens acting as sleazy arms dealers. I wonder if it went higher
>than that - heads of government dealing directly with each other. The only
>thing that leads me away from that idea is the testimony of so many experts
>on bio & chem weapons who said that the stuff Saddam made many years back
>would've been either useless or dubious at this point in time.
>

Private citizens *or* Saddam's folks melding into the citizenry. And I include
*all* the looting, even of office buildings, especially of museums and places of
importance to the Iraqi people. I think the continuous showing on TV of the
looting was a big factor in the overall attitude of the Iraqi people and made
the insurgency that much easier to gain a foothold.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD

[Doug Kanter]

"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uopkd1tms4kkkj14d80ln60mtsgm5v7fr4@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:05:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:5qekd1p91b6jipbtqnkoq6s7eqmk7qbeik@4ax.com...
>>
>>>>For at least the past 10 years, it's been "old news" that Russian
>>>>weapons
>>>>stockpiles have been continually looted. Are you suggesting that "those
>>>>who
>>>>were running the war" were too stupid to expect it to happen in Iraq?
>>>>How
>>>>does that make you feel about your president and his chums?
>>>>
>>> Now we've come full circle. I was never convinced that the WMD were
>>> there
>>> when
>>> we started the war, and I've always felt that the biggest mistake we
>>> made
>>> was in
>>> not planning for the looting.
>>>
>>> My feelings for our president and chums? In this regard, they're
>>> unchanged. The
>>> looting situation was ineptly handled.
>>
>>Perhaps we should agree on the definition of looting. To me, that
>>signifies
>>private citizens acting as sleazy arms dealers. I wonder if it went higher
>>than that - heads of government dealing directly with each other. The only
>>thing that leads me away from that idea is the testimony of so many
>>experts
>>on bio & chem weapons who said that the stuff Saddam made many years back
>>would've been either useless or dubious at this point in time.
>>
>
> Private citizens *or* Saddam's folks melding into the citizenry. And I
> include
> *all* the looting, even of office buildings, especially of museums and
> places of
> importance to the Iraqi people. I think the continuous showing on TV of
> the
> looting was a big factor in the overall attitude of the Iraqi people and
> made
> the insurgency that much easier to gain a foothold.

What did you expect? This is what happens when you remove any government - a
free-for-all. What do you suppose would happen in poor sections of any city
if you made it clear that there would be no law enforcement for a period of
time? Baghdad, Baltimore, Detroit - all the same result.

[John H.]

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:22:50 GMT, "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:uopkd1tms4kkkj14d80ln60mtsgm5v7fr4@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:05:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
>> <ancientangler@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"John H." <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:5qekd1p91b6jipbtqnkoq6s7eqmk7qbeik@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>>For at least the past 10 years, it's been "old news" that Russian
>>>>>weapons
>>>>>stockpiles have been continually looted. Are you suggesting that "those
>>>>>who
>>>>>were running the war" were too stupid to expect it to happen in Iraq?
>>>>>How
>>>>>does that make you feel about your president and his chums?
>>>>>
>>>> Now we've come full circle. I was never convinced that the WMD were
>>>> there
>>>> when
>>>> we started the war, and I've always felt that the biggest mistake we
>>>> made
>>>> was in
>>>> not planning for the looting.
>>>>
>>>> My feelings for our president and chums? In this regard, they're
>>>> unchanged. The
>>>> looting situation was ineptly handled.
>>>
>>>Perhaps we should agree on the definition of looting. To me, that
>>>signifies
>>>private citizens acting as sleazy arms dealers. I wonder if it went higher
>>>than that - heads of government dealing directly with each other. The only
>>>thing that leads me away from that idea is the testimony of so many
>>>experts
>>>on bio & chem weapons who said that the stuff Saddam made many years back
>>>would've been either useless or dubious at this point in time.
>>>
>>
>> Private citizens *or* Saddam's folks melding into the citizenry. And I
>> include
>> *all* the looting, even of office buildings, especially of museums and
>> places of
>> importance to the Iraqi people. I think the continuous showing on TV of
>> the
>> looting was a big factor in the overall attitude of the Iraqi people and
>> made
>> the insurgency that much easier to gain a foothold.
>
>What did you expect? This is what happens when you remove any government - a
>free-for-all. What do you suppose would happen in poor sections of any city
>if you made it clear that there would be no law enforcement for a period of
>time? Baghdad, Baltimore, Detroit - all the same result.
>

Yup, and shooting a few looters right up front would put a stop to it.

Now, I'm going on vacation for a few days.

--
John H.
On the 'PocoLoco' out of Deale, MD