Argon/CO2 mix for MIG

[Dave Plowman (News)]

What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?

--
*Don't byte off more than you can view *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Stuffed]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdb2e297edave@davenoise.co.uk...
> What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?

Depends how infrequent, and how much you'll be using. I haven't found many
options for argoshield, it's either disposables or BOC around here. BOC
doesn't work out cheap for the odd bit of welding because of the bottle
hire, but chuck aways are bloody expensive if you've got more than a foot of
weld to do, IMO.

I use plain CO2, because I bought a 5kg bottle for 50 quid outright, and
it's 15 quid for a refill on an exchange basis, so a little more expensive
than BOC for the exchange, but compared to the bottle rental with the amount
I weld it's actually a hell of a lot cheaper. Trouble is the place I get it
from doesn't offer any other gases, but CO2 is OK, if not great.

[mrcheerful]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdb2e297edave@davenoise.co.uk...
> What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?
>
> --
> *Don't byte off more than you can view *

practically speaking, buy a boc bottle from a dodgy trader, find someone who
will get refills for you.

hiring a full size boc argoshield is 70 pounds a year, the refill is about
38 pounds.

air products are slightly cheaper

first find your bottle, scrap merchants are a good place to start.

mrcheerful

[T.Gee]

Dave, I've used the disposables for several years. I am also an infrequent
user. When I initially bought the MIG kit (after spending so much on
contract bottle fees with BOC) I thought the disposables were far too short
lived and was punting around for an alternative. A fellow hobby restorer
gave me some advice I've been very grateful for. "Turn down the gas until it
is a just discernable hiss when the trigger is squeezed (machine 'off')"

The bottle now seems to last for ages and ages. He explained that the gas
has to merely shield the work so providing you are not working in a howling
gale this low setting is adequate. My welds seem fine and have stood the
test of time.

Hope this is of some help........ Regards Gee

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdb2e297edave@davenoise.co.uk...
> What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?
>
> --
> *Don't byte off more than you can view *
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Andy Dingley]

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 10:51:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?

Bite the bullet and hire the bottle. It's not cheap though.


I always found that the disposables weren't too expensive as a way of
buying gas (by volume), but that their sealing wasn't too reliable. If
you used a fraction of a bottle, then came back to it a few months
later, the bottle would have leaked and would now be empty.

--
Smert' spamionam

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?

Depends on how much welding you think you might do in the long term.
Refillable bottles (Sealey) cost £30-40, but like Calor gas bottles, there's
no rental.
Refills cost about £7, but can only be obtained from a Sealey agent.

I baught 2 refillable bottles several years ago. About £24 each IIRC.
I was using much more gas then than I do now, but it still took several
months before I'd saved enough to make it worthwhile.

Disposable bottles are around £12 inc.
For occasional use, probably the cheapest and most convenient way to go.
Plus std MIG CO2 bottles are much easier to get hold of.
Mike.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <41165b7e$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> Depends on how much welding you think you might do in the long term.
> Refillable bottles (Sealey) cost £30-40, but like Calor gas bottles,
> there's no rental. Refills cost about £7, but can only be obtained from
> a Sealey agent.

How do the quantities compare with the standard disposable ones?

> I baught 2 refillable bottles several years ago. About £24 each IIRC. I
> was using much more gas then than I do now, but it still took several
> months before I'd saved enough to make it worthwhile.

> Disposable bottles are around £12 inc. For occasional use, probably the
> cheapest and most convenient way to go. Plus std MIG CO2 bottles are
> much easier to get hold of. Mike.

Halfords price is much lower than that - IIRC under 9 quid. But they're
only lasting 5 minutes with me. Admittedly I'm still practising. How many
bottles should you need per reel of wire?

Also, anyone recommend a good book or website? I'm struggling. If I run a
weld down the middle of a piece of scrap, I can get it perfect. Trying to
join two is rubbish.

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[mrcheerful]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdb62dac8dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <41165b7e$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > Depends on how much welding you think you might do in the long term.
> > Refillable bottles (Sealey) cost £30-40, but like Calor gas bottles,
> > there's no rental. Refills cost about £7, but can only be obtained from
> > a Sealey agent.
>
> How do the quantities compare with the standard disposable ones?
>
> > I baught 2 refillable bottles several years ago. About £24 each IIRC. I
> > was using much more gas then than I do now, but it still took several
> > months before I'd saved enough to make it worthwhile.
>
> > Disposable bottles are around £12 inc. For occasional use, probably the
> > cheapest and most convenient way to go. Plus std MIG CO2 bottles are
> > much easier to get hold of. Mike.
>
> Halfords price is much lower than that - IIRC under 9 quid. But they're
> only lasting 5 minutes with me. Admittedly I'm still practising. How many
> bottles should you need per reel of wire?
>
> Also, anyone recommend a good book or website? I'm struggling. If I run a
> weld down the middle of a piece of scrap, I can get it perfect. Trying to
> join two is rubbish.
>
> --
> *Half the people in the world are below average.
>

I suggest you have some expert advice on welding, preferably with your own
kit. Local colleges do really good welding courses or if you want to come
and have some time practising welding using good kit, or your own, you could
come and visit me in sunny essex, but not till september!!

mrcheerful

[Pete W.]

<snip>
> gave me some advice I've been very grateful for. "Turn down the gas until it
> is a just discernable hiss when the trigger is squeezed (machine 'off')"
>
> The bottle now seems to last for ages and ages. He explained that the gas
> has to merely shield the work so providing you are not working in a howling
> gale this low setting is adequate. My welds seem fine and have stood the
> test of time.
>
> Hope this is of some help........ Regards Gee

Good advice, but also make sure the garage doors are shut and there are no draughts;
they'll blow the gas shield away.
My SIP manual says something like, "screw the gas control knob right in then back off one
and a half turns". I put a bit of tape on it to help gauge it, but as I run out, I screw
it in a bit to use the last of the gas.
I also wire brush the two surfaces to be welded just before I start. Not strictly
necessary I know, but I find it helps.

And another thing. I noticed at one of the shows, different stands had the CO2 disposables
with different capacities, same size bottle. I never found the argon/CO2 stuff at the
larger capacity though, has anyone else?

Pete W

[Chris Bolus]

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 11:27:43 +0100, "Stuffed" <talking@rse.non> wrote:

>
>"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:4cdb2e297edave@davenoise.co.uk...
>> What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?
>
>Depends how infrequent, and how much you'll be using. I haven't found many
>options for argoshield, it's either disposables or BOC around here. BOC
>doesn't work out cheap for the odd bit of welding because of the bottle
>hire, but chuck aways are bloody expensive if you've got more than a foot of
>weld to do, IMO.
>
>I use plain CO2, because I bought a 5kg bottle for 50 quid outright, and
>it's 15 quid for a refill on an exchange basis, so a little more expensive
>than BOC for the exchange, but compared to the bottle rental with the amount
>I weld it's actually a hell of a lot cheaper. Trouble is the place I get it
>from doesn't offer any other gases, but CO2 is OK, if not great.
>
I was given a couple of empty 2.5 kg bottles at work. When I went to my
local gas shop they happily exchanged one for a 5 kg "food grade" bottle
for £12. It gives a good flow rate and I haven't used the first one yet;
I'd have got through at least three disposables by now.

TBH I never found Argoshield to be significantly better to weld with; in
fact I recall arguing with my wife after she bought me one and I
couldn't get the welds right with it!
--
Regards, Chris (Please take out my car to reply by email)
----1961 Austin A40 Farina----1966 Triumph Herald Estate---
--1969 Riley Elf--1965 Wolseley 16/60--1965 Hillman Minx---
-------1972 Mini Clubman estate------1957 Standard 8-------
---- Website at www.b0lus.com ----
********** Please don't email in HTML! **********

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <41165b7e$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
>> Depends on how much welding you think you might do in the long term.
>> Refillable bottles (Sealey) cost £30-40, but like Calor gas bottles,
>> there's no rental. Refills cost about £7, but can only be obtained
>> from a Sealey agent.
>
> How do the quantities compare with the standard disposable ones?

IIRC disposables hold 600grms. Refillable 1kg.
>
>> I baught 2 refillable bottles several years ago. About £24 each
>> IIRC. I was using much more gas then than I do now, but it still
>> took several months before I'd saved enough to make it worthwhile.
>
>> Disposable bottles are around £12 inc. For occasional use, probably
>> the cheapest and most convenient way to go. Plus std MIG CO2 bottles
>> are much easier to get hold of. Mike.
>
> Halfords price is much lower than that - IIRC under 9 quid. But
> they're only lasting 5 minutes with me. Admittedly I'm still
> practising.

That doesn't sound right. At work I use their Clark 120E?. I've made a 6ft
toolroom bench out of 50 x 6mm angle iron with a welded steel top. A similar
4ft bench with castors out of the same mat'l and still had plenty of gas
left in a disposable bottle.
At home I have the smaller 100E, but the consumptionof gas is similar.
You probably need to reduce the gas flow quite a lot. Very little is needed
to prevent oxydisation of the weld.

How many bottles should you need per reel of wire?

It doesn't work that way. The rate of wire feed depends on the power
setting. Welding like the above will use a lot of wire as all the power
settings are at max. Welding sheet steel, needs much less power, so the feed
speed will be correspondingly lower.
Gas consumption OTOH is more or less the same for both in a fairly draught
free environment.

I use the large reels of 0,6mm wire, I forget the weight but they're 7-8
inches in dia.
I've just put a new reel on, but I would guess I've used less than 10
disposable bottles on the whole of the old reel.
I keep all the old bottles. With the tops and bottoms cut off, I find the
tubes useful for making odd fabrications around the shop, so it gives me a
fair idea of how many I've used.

> Also, anyone recommend a good book or website? I'm struggling. If I
> run a weld down the middle of a piece of scrap, I can get it perfect.
> Trying to join two is rubbish.

Practice is all I can recommend. It's how I learned.

Sounds like you might be using too much power. You can run a neat bead down
thinnish sheet using quite high power without melting holes in it.
If you try to use the same power to join 2 edges it'll overheat, melt the
edges, and blow holes between the plates, without joining them with a
continuous weld.

Try turning the power and wire feed right down, then gradually increase the
wire feed, until you get a nice sizzle. Like frying bacon. If that doesn't
work. Have another go with the power slightly increased. Aim for the frying
bacon noise again.
A nice frying bacon sizzle sound, usually means a nice weld.

There is a knack. I had the same problems when I started, but once I'd found
it, it suddenly became easy.
Like riding a bike. Once you can it's not easy to deliberately fall off.
I've no doubt that you'll suddenly get 'the knack'. Then you'll wonder why
you had so much trouble finding it. :-)
I now find it easy set the welder to near enough the correct setting
whenever I use it.
No doubt you'll soon be able to do the same.
Good luck.
Mike.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4116e78a$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> Sounds like you might be using too much power. You can run a neat bead
> down thinnish sheet using quite high power without melting holes in it.
> If you try to use the same power to join 2 edges it'll overheat, melt
> the edges, and blow holes between the plates, without joining them with
> a continuous weld.

Yup. I'm using the second lowest power setting on a Migmate Turbo 130. I
can't seem to get it to strike on the lowest setting.

> Try turning the power and wire feed right down, then gradually increase
> the wire feed, until you get a nice sizzle. Like frying bacon. If that
> doesn't work. Have another go with the power slightly increased. Aim for
> the frying bacon noise again. A nice frying bacon sizzle sound, usually
> means a nice weld.

The trouble is I know how it should be as I used to MIG weld many years
ago, but that was with pro equipment. And I can't remember having any of
these problems.

> There is a knack. I had the same problems when I started, but once I'd
> found it, it suddenly became easy.

Yes.

I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain - it stalls on
the minimum setting and a tiny movement of the control makes it whizz out.
I bought it as the recommended one in a Practical Classics test of several.

I'll practice again with it set to minimum power and less gas flow which
set as they recommend is costing a fortune. I've got through 4 bottles
just practising - I doubt much more than a metre or so of welding in total.

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[DocDelete]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdbb13b10dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <4116e78a$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,

> I'll practice again with it set to minimum power and less gas flow which
> set as they recommend is costing a fortune. I've got through 4 bottles
> just practising - I doubt much more than a metre or so of welding in
total.

There's something funny here. My cheapo Mig uses the disposable bottles at
around 1 bottle per whole reel, even with the gas regulator wide open. Mind
you, I find it very difficult to get a clean weld, and often end up
overcooking the joint just so I know it's solid, then end up grinding to
finish.

Maybe my kit has always had some sort of blockage, or restriction due to
poor design.

--
Ken Davidson
DocDelete


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[Willy Eckerslyke]

Stuffed wrote:

> I use plain CO2, because I bought a 5kg bottle for 50 quid outright, and
> it's 15 quid for a refill on an exchange basis, so a little more expensive
> than BOC for the exchange, but compared to the bottle rental with the amount
> I weld it's actually a hell of a lot cheaper.

The chap replacing all the old CO2 fire extinguishers with new ones in
my place of work gave me a couple as they'd have gone into a skip
otherwise. The screw thread holding on the extinguisher cone just
happens to be the same as that on your average regulator. The method
apparently, is to fit the regulator then clamp the trigger mechanism in
its open position. I haven't used them yet as I still have most of a
large bottle to finish.
It seems that Fire Protection specialists quite often dispose of old,
but perfectly sound CO2 extinguishers, so if you have in the area...

[Mike G]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdbb13b10dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <4116e78a$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > Sounds like you might be using too much power. You can run a neat bead
> > down thinnish sheet using quite high power without melting holes in it.
> > If you try to use the same power to join 2 edges it'll overheat, melt
> > the edges, and blow holes between the plates, without joining them with
> > a continuous weld.
>
> Yup. I'm using the second lowest power setting on a Migmate Turbo 130. I
> can't seem to get it to strike on the lowest setting.

Sounds like the end of the wire might be oxydised. If so it's not actually
making contact.
Try snipping the end of the wire. While I was learning, I found that helped
a lot.
The lower the power, the better the contact needed to start arcing. Once it
arcs the melting wire easily maintains good contact.
>
> > Try turning the power and wire feed right down, then gradually increase
> > the wire feed, until you get a nice sizzle. Like frying bacon.
>
> > There is a knack. I had the same problems when I started, but once I'd
> > found it, it suddenly became easy.
>
> Yes.
>
> I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain - it stalls on
> the minimum setting and a tiny movement of the control makes it whizz out.

On the Clarke, the minimum feed speed is too low for the thinnest sheet. I
would assume your SIP is the same.

The Clarke speed control knob can rotate about 270 degrees, but in practice
I can only use the range between about 30-80 degrees.
Either side of those figures, and it's too fast or too slow for the minimum
and maximum power settings.
Within that 50 degree range though, the wire feed speed can be adjusted very
progressively and accurately.

If your SIP can't give a smooth progressive transistion from slow to fast,
even if that means fairly small movements of the speed knob, I'd suggest
there is something wrong with it.
The speed control shouldn't be too sensitive to easily achieve a suitable
speed setting.

> I bought it as the recommended one in a Practical Classics test of
several.

If it's the test I recall, it was many years ago.
Maybe your m/c has become sticky through lack of use. :-)
>
> I'll practice again with it set to minimum power and less gas flow which
> set as they recommend is costing a fortune. I've got through 4 bottles
> just practising - I doubt much more than a metre or so of welding in
total.

What!!!
I think I can confidently say your gas setting is definitely, indubitably,
and most certainly too high.:-)

Set the gas regulator on the bottle so you can only just hear the gas coming
out. If it's too low it'll be obvious. You'll just get a crappy burnt mess,
and you'll need to increase it slightly.
Also check the valve on the gun itself. If that is leaking, it could be
contributing to the excessive gas consumption.

A final thaught. I found when learning, that the inside of the gas nozzle on
the gun rapidly became gunged up with lumps of crap, from the splattering it
got from my early attempts with the wrong settings etc.
Making sure that the inside is reasonably clear should help to give a
smoother gas flow, and reduce the amount of gas needed to maintain the
shield.

Email me if you feel we're going on too much for the n/g.
Mike.

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Mike G wrote:

> If your SIP can't give a smooth progressive transistion from slow to fast,
> even if that means fairly small movements of the speed knob, I'd suggest
> there is something wrong with it.

Or perhaps the wire is slightly tangled on the reel. I'd suggest
opening/removing the side of the welder and watching how the wire feeds
with the speed turned quite low. If the reel was allowed to loosen when
it was first put on the machine, the wire could have crossed itself and
will never feed smoothly.
Incidentally, I find that large reels feed a lot more smoothly than
small ones with my Clarke.

> A final thaught. I found when learning, that the inside of the gas
nozzle on
> the gun rapidly became gunged up with lumps of crap, from the splattering it
> got from my early attempts with the wrong settings etc.

Another tip is to make sure that you always have something to rest your
hand on as you weld. Ideally, it should be in a position that allows
your hand to pivot, moving the torch through 3 or 4 inches along the
area to be joined. This is to stop your hand waving around rather than
to take its weight and can make world of difference to your results. A
welding clamp off to one side is often sufficient.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <41176157$0$529$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
DocDelete <docdelete@thehomeofnospam.org> wrote:
> There's something funny here. My cheapo Mig uses the disposable bottles
> at around 1 bottle per whole reel, even with the gas regulator wide
> open. Mind you, I find it very difficult to get a clean weld, and often
> end up overcooking the joint just so I know it's solid, then end up
> grinding to finish.

> Maybe my kit has always had some sort of blockage, or restriction due to
> poor design.

Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't need
to be switched on for this.

I'm going to check all the pipework for leaks.

--
*The e-mail of the species is more deadly than the mail *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Andy Dingley]

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:43:17 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain

So why did you buy a SIP ? They were slagged off in front of you, but
you knew better. Now _after_ you've bought one, you find they're as
bad as you were told.

Oh, and your gas valve is stuck. That's the other common fault.


--
Smert' spamionam

[DocDelete]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdbc2e4a8dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <41176157$0$529$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,

> Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't need
> to be switched on for this.

Yes, and quite a healthy hiss I think ;-)

If I leave the cylinder regulator open the system does leak down, so the
trigger mechanism must be a bit cheap / naff. I always make sure that the
regulator is turned off at the end of each session. I failed to do this once
and lost a complete cylinder over a few days of non-use.

--
Ken Davidson
DocDelete


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[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
DocDelete <docdelete@thehomeofnospam.org> wrote:
> > Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't
> > need to be switched on for this.

> Yes, and quite a healthy hiss I think ;-)

> If I leave the cylinder regulator open the system does leak down, so the
> trigger mechanism must be a bit cheap / naff. I always make sure that
> the regulator is turned off at the end of each session. I failed to do
> this once and lost a complete cylinder over a few days of non-use.

Is yours a Migmate?

The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

--
*According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <umveh097v8cfegfh65gokitud29nu5cllq@4ax.com>,
Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote:
> >I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain

> So why did you buy a SIP ? They were slagged off in front of you, but
> you knew better. Now _after_ you've bought one, you find they're as
> bad as you were told.

I'd bought it *before* some slagged it off. And you might be happy
accepting a total stranger's word as gospel on something over a mag like
Practical Classics, but I'm not. Others were also happy to recommend
it.

> Oh, and your gas valve is stuck. That's the other common fault.

On investigation, it appears to work in reverse.

--
*60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <umveh097v8cfegfh65gokitud29nu5cllq@4ax.com>,
> Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>>> I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain
>
>> So why did you buy a SIP ? They were slagged off in front of you,
>> but you knew better. Now _after_ you've bought one, you find they're
>> as bad as you were told.
>
> I'd bought it *before* some slagged it off. And you might be happy
> accepting a total stranger's word as gospel on something over a mag
> like Practical Classics, but I'm not. Others were also happy to
> recommend it.

A better reason than I had to buy my Clarke 100E.
The Pillar eng'g rep (Now Buck & Hickman) offered it to me because a
customer had tried it and given it back, so technically it was s/h, but
AFAIC it was new. Having only had a few hrs of use at most.
He'd just picked it up, and it was in the back of his car.
He offered it to me for £100. The list price at the time was £147, so I
snapped it up.
Came with an almost full bottle of gas as well, which wasn't included with a
new m/c.
Up until then, I'd been doing all my welding with a SIP arc welder, but the
MIG was more suitable for many of the smaller jobs I was doing at the time.

You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming welding
helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
http://tinyurl.com/4fft9
Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat. Probably not as well made as the ones
costing anything up to £200, but who cares, as long as it does the job.
Far easier than holding the provided shield, or even a plain flip up helmet.
I'm not on commision BTW.:-)
I just think they're good value.
Mike.



>
>> Oh, and your gas valve is stuck. That's the other common fault.
>
> On investigation, it appears to work in reverse.

[T.Gee]

For what it is worth I always disconnect my regulator (unscrew it
completely) between sessions. As already stated in earlier post, my
disposables last well, not sure about consumption but I don't think I use
more than say 2 disposables per reel of wire although I've been surprised
how much welding I get from a reel. Before I bought my set I was told I'd
need to use the "Big" reels but found this not so. Regards Gee


"DocDelete" <docdelete@thehomeofnospam.org> wrote in message
news:41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4cdbc2e4a8dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article <41176157$0$529$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
>
> > Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't
need
> > to be switched on for this.
>
> Yes, and quite a healthy hiss I think ;-)
>
> If I leave the cylinder regulator open the system does leak down, so the
> trigger mechanism must be a bit cheap / naff. I always make sure that the
> regulator is turned off at the end of each session. I failed to do this
once
> and lost a complete cylinder over a few days of non-use.
>
> --
> Ken Davidson
> DocDelete
>

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4117c198$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > I'd bought it *before* some slagged it off. And you might be happy
> > accepting a total stranger's word as gospel on something over a mag
> > like Practical Classics, but I'm not. Others were also happy to
> > recommend it.

> A better reason than I had to buy my Clarke 100E.
> The Pillar eng'g rep (Now Buck & Hickman) offered it to me because a
> customer had tried it and given it back, so technically it was s/h, but
> AFAIC it was new. Having only had a few hrs of use at most.
> He'd just picked it up, and it was in the back of his car.
> He offered it to me for £100. The list price at the time was £147, so I
> snapped it up.

I got the Migmate new off Ebay, for about the cheapest I could find it
anywhere, but *without* VAT. And the carriage was good value too. IIRC,
140 total - sent direct from the 'factory'. About a couple of years ago,
but never got round to using it.

> Came with an almost full bottle of gas as well, which wasn't included
> with a new m/c. Up until then, I'd been doing all my welding with a SIP
> arc welder, but the MIG was more suitable for many of the smaller jobs I
> was doing at the time.

> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat. Probably
> not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200, but who cares,
> as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding the provided shield,
> or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on commision BTW.:-) I just
> think they're good value.

I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the ordinary
type. Skill, I suppose.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, try management *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <4117c198$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:

>> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
>> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
>> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat.
>> Probably not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200,
>> but who cares, as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding
>> the provided shield, or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on
>> commision BTW.:-) I just think they're good value.
>
> I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the
> ordinary type. Skill, I suppose.

Definitely skill, says he after welding for years without one.
Nah. My welds still don't look as neat as those done by a professional, but
I'd guarantee that they're as strong. Mine just need a little more fettling
with an angle grinder.:-)
Mike.

[Dave Skirrow]

>
>> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
>> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
>> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat. Probably
>> not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200, but who cares,
>> as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding the provided shield,
>> or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on commision BTW.:-) I just
>> think they're good value.
>
> I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the ordinary
> type. Skill, I suppose.
>



So these cheap helmets are ok are they? I have wanted one of these for a
while but keep putting it off as I'm scared the cheap ones will be crap.

I'm still using the handheld thing that came with my welder.

By the way, I use a Migmate 130 as despite what a couple of people have
been saying I think it is great. I haven't used any other welders though,
but this seems to do the job very well.

Wire feed is improved if you use one of the bigger wire coils, about £10-12
and I disconnect the gas if I'm not gonna be using mine the next day.

Dave

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <Xns954167CB6E223daveskirrowbtinterne@194.168.222.1 20>,
Dave Skirrow <daveskirrow@btinternetSPAMFILTER.com> wrote:

> By the way, I use a Migmate 130 as despite what a couple of people have
> been saying I think it is great. I haven't used any other welders
> though, but this seems to do the job very well.

PC did a test of pretty well all similarly priced welders, and it came out
top.

Of course it's not as good as a pro one, but I have the problem that it
has to be carried up and down stairs, as I don't have a garage to keep it
in. So weight and portability is a crucial factor - as was cost.

> Wire feed is improved if you use one of the bigger wire coils, about
> £10-12 and I disconnect the gas if I'm not gonna be using mine the next
> day.

I'm using a large reel. I'm going to investigate why the regulator works
in reverse. It appears at the moment to be using the bottle valve as the
control mechanism - and doesn't cut off the gas when 'closed'.

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[DocDelete]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdbd8dea1dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,

> Is yours a Migmate?

Good question - it's about 8 years old, budget model, I think it's a migmate
130 (does that make sense?) - orange case, black front, bottle at back with
a fabric strap, wire speed control, current controls are basically two
switches A/B 1/2 yielding a matrix of 4 different settings?

> The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
> shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
> opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

I can't remember, but the manual was next to useless. The regulator has a
little "narrowing wedge" marked on it to indicate how far open it is.

It's given me average performance despite my lack of skill with it - but I
have had to persevere with...

New nozzle needed 12 months ago, old one fatigue sheered at the where the
tip screws in - cost a very unreasonable £24 from the (local) manufacturer.
Consider this against the purchase price of £100 (shop display unit).

Trigger mechanism is now dodgy with use - needs regular dismantling to cure
wire snags etc.

Wire tension control plastic hinge broke within moments of first use - fixed
with a large washer and self-tapper.

If I'm not careful about wrapping the dormant unit in polythene, or at least
the wire reel, the wire oxidises making welding impossible (not a fault of
the unit obviously, just an observation).

I regularly blast the gas shroud with antispatter spray whilst welding, this
avoids the need to keep unbunging the tip or clearing the shroud every ten
mins. (I got the spray from www.screwfix.com).

I can tell when I've got a good weld "on the run" 'cos the unit overheats
just as I'm getting good! It takes around ten mins to reset :-(

Bottom line is that the unit needs care even for low usage, but then again
it would've been entirely inappropriate for me to have bought dearer
equipment, my welding is //that// bad ;-)) Put another way: every time I
finish the welding task in hand I mutter a "never again" to myself - bit
like binge drinking.

--
Ken Davidson
DocDelete


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 29/07/04

[Mike G]

Dave Skirrow wrote:
>>> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
>>> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
>>> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat.
>>> Probably not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200,
>>> but who cares, as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding
>>> the provided shield, or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on
>>> commision BTW.:-) I just think they're good value.
>>
>> I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the
>> ordinary type. Skill, I suppose.
>
> So these cheap helmets are ok are they? I have wanted one of these
> for a while but keep putting it off as I'm scared the cheap ones will
> be crap.

The only criticism I have of mine, is that the flip clamping knobs. The ones
that hold the helmet in the open position, could do to be stronger and
better made.
The plastic knobs with plastic screws, are barely strong enough to hold the
helmet open. A slight movement of the head and it'll flip down again. I
cured that on mine by making new knobs that fitted the screw better, and
allowed them to be screwed tighter, but obviously that's not an easy mod to
make if you haven't the right tools.

Apart from that the helmet works perfectly, and considering the cost of most
of these type of helmets, is still very cheap for a helmet that does the job
as well as the ones costing several times the price.

Maybe if I were buying another I'd go for this one:-
http://tinyurl.com/3pmh5

Looks to be better made, but not that much more expensive.
Works out at about £55 inc shipping, at the $59.99 Buy it now price.
It also has the advantage of being solar powered, as against the 4 AAA
batteries needed by the one I have.
Mike.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
>
> The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
> shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
> opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

I think you'll find they all work that way.
The bottle has a valve that must be depressed to open it. The knob has a r/h
thread, so turning clockwise screws a pin into the bottle opening the valve.
I suppose they could have used a l/h thread, but in general r/h threads are
cheaper to manufacture. R/h thread tooling being cheaper to buy, than l/h
OTOH stick on labels are the same price, whichever way the arrow points. :-)
Mike.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4118ac9f$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
> > shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
> > opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

> I think you'll find they all work that way. The bottle has a valve that
> must be depressed to open it. The knob has a r/h thread, so turning
> clockwise screws a pin into the bottle opening the valve. I suppose they
> could have used a l/h thread, but in general r/h threads are cheaper to
> manufacture. R/h thread tooling being cheaper to buy, than l/h OTOH
> stick on labels are the same price, whichever way the arrow points. :-)
> Mike.

Hmm. Both the handbook - useless - and the arrows on the knob indicate it
is clockwise to reduce the flow, anti-clockwise to increase. The handbook
says to start with it fully clockwise, then unscrew about 1/2 turn. This
results in my getting through a bottle of gas in a few minutes...

Andy Dingley in a very helpful post ;-) indicated that these valves often
stick. I'll take it apart (if I can) in a few minutes and see what's what.

--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Andy Dingley in a very helpful post ;-) indicated that these valves often
> stick. I'll take it apart (if I can) in a few minutes and see what's what.

I expect I still have my original small bottle adaptor knocking about
somewhere if you want it. It'll be a Clarke one, but that shouldn't
matter as long as yours uses a push fit onto the pipe.
I have to warn you though, that it was never perfect. If it was screwed
tight onto the bottle, the valve would be too stiff to turn. Slightly
loose and it was fine, though I did always undo it completely to avoid
leakage when not using the machine.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <4118ac9f$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,

>
> Andy Dingley in a very helpful post ;-) indicated that these valves
> often stick.

I don't understand what he means. I've been regularly using my MIG, plus the
one they have at work, for well over 15 years in total. During that time
I've never had a valve in a bottle stick, or any trouble with the regulator
on either m/c.
Even if it were a sticky valve, I can't beleive you could buy 4 faulty
bottles in succession. :-)
To say they often stick, is not my experience at all.

You can easily check whether a bottle valve is sticking, by simply
unscrewing the regulator.
If it doesn't leak it aint sticking.

And theres nothing to stick in the regulator, unless the regulator screw
seizes up.

If there are any leaks in that area the most likely cause would be a seal
failure.
Either the regulator to bottle seal, or the 'O' ring, IIRC, sealing the
regulator screw shaft.
Having said that neither of the 2 m/c's I use has ever suffered from either
problem.
Mike.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4118e3f8_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > Andy Dingley in a very helpful post ;-) indicated that these valves
> > often stick.

> I don't understand what he means.

Neither do I, but he doesn't seem willing to explain.

> I've been regularly using my MIG, plus the one they have at work, for
> well over 15 years in total. During that time I've never had a valve in
> a bottle stick, or any trouble with the regulator on either m/c. Even if
> it were a sticky valve, I can't beleive you could buy 4 faulty bottles
> in succession. :-) To say they often stick, is not my experience at all.

> You can easily check whether a bottle valve is sticking, by simply
> unscrewing the regulator. If it doesn't leak it aint sticking.

Not the bottle valve - the regulator.

However, I took mine apart, and I'm confused. It is in perfect condition,
but doesn't do any regulating. With it at maximum it allows no gas flow at
all. On minimum, it appears to allow maximum flow - all judged by the hiss
of the gas without the welder being turned on. I wonder if it's designed
to work with a much higher pressure system?

> And theres nothing to stick in the regulator, unless the regulator screw
> seizes up.

Absolutely - just a spring and rubber diaphragm.

> If there are any leaks in that area the most likely cause would be a
> seal failure. Either the regulator to bottle seal, or the 'O' ring,
> IIRC, sealing the regulator screw shaft. Having said that neither of the
> 2 m/c's I use has ever suffered from either problem.

No leaks that I can find.

--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <4118e3f8_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
>>> Andy Dingley in a very helpful post ;-) indicated that these valves
>>> often stick.
>
>> I don't understand what he means.
>
> Neither do I, but he doesn't seem willing to explain.
>
>> I've been regularly using my MIG, plus the one they have at work, for
>> well over 15 years in total. During that time I've never had a valve
>> in a bottle stick, or any trouble with the regulator on either m/c.
>> Even if it were a sticky valve, I can't beleive you could buy 4
>> faulty bottles in succession. :-) To say they often stick, is not my
>> experience at all.
>
>> You can easily check whether a bottle valve is sticking, by simply
>> unscrewing the regulator. If it doesn't leak it aint sticking.
>
> Not the bottle valve - the regulator.

But the regulator hasn't got any valves, so it don't make sense.

> However, I took mine apart, and I'm confused. It is in perfect
> condition, but doesn't do any regulating. With it at maximum it
> allows no gas flow at all. On minimum, it appears to allow maximum
> flow - all judged by the hiss of the gas without the welder being
> turned on. I wonder if it's designed to work with a much higher
> pressure system?

Tear the label off.
You're confusing me now, with your maximum and minimum :-)

Apart from the mislabeling it sounds like the regulator is working
perfectly.
Forget the label. Turn the regulator knob so the gas flow is shut off.
To weld, turn it slowly in the opposite direction, until you can just hear
the gas coming out of the nozzle.
Doesn't matter what the book or the knob says, that'll be near enough the
correct setting for the gas flow, and I guarantee that you'll use
considerably less gas than you've been using so far.
>
>> And theres nothing to stick in the regulator, unless the regulator
>> screw seizes up.
>
> Absolutely - just a spring and rubber diaphragm.

I haven't really examined one, but I think it's more of a flow regulator
than a pressure regulator. The volume of gas is all that really matters.
With the low volumes needed for shielding, pressure is unimportant.
Mike.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <2nt477F4g9noU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Mike G <mikgibbs@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >> You can easily check whether a bottle valve is sticking, by simply
> >> unscrewing the regulator. If it doesn't leak it aint sticking.
> >
> > Not the bottle valve - the regulator.

> But the regulator hasn't got any valves, so it don't make sense.

It has - a spring loaded one. With a rubber diaphragm sealing its outlet
from a second chamber. I'd guess it works by using atmospheric pressure as
a reference.

> > However, I took mine apart, and I'm confused. It is in perfect
> > condition, but doesn't do any regulating. With it at maximum it
> > allows no gas flow at all. On minimum, it appears to allow maximum
> > flow - all judged by the hiss of the gas without the welder being
> > turned on. I wonder if it's designed to work with a much higher
> > pressure system?

> Tear the label off.
> You're confusing me now, with your maximum and minimum :-)

It has arrows on the knob with + and - signs. These correspond to what the
manual says - clockwise to turn down the flow, anti-clockwise to increase
- like a normal water tap. But in practice it works in the exact opposite
way - I'd say by exerting a direct mechanical load on the bottle valve.

> Apart from the mislabeling it sounds like the regulator is working
> perfectly. Forget the label. Turn the regulator knob so the gas flow is
> shut off. To weld, turn it slowly in the opposite direction, until you
> can just hear the gas coming out of the nozzle. Doesn't matter what the
> book or the knob says, that'll be near enough the correct setting for
> the gas flow, and I guarantee that you'll use considerably less gas than
> you've been using so far.

Yes - that's now what I'm doing. Still not getting anywhere. On minimum
voltage - which I'd guess it needs for body panels - I can't get a
consistent arc. Go to the next setting and I burn holes. I'm thinking I'll
give it up. ;-)

> >> And theres nothing to stick in the regulator, unless the regulator
> >> screw seizes up.
> >
> > Absolutely - just a spring and rubber diaphragm.

> I haven't really examined one, but I think it's more of a flow regulator
> than a pressure regulator. The volume of gas is all that really matters.
> With the low volumes needed for shielding, pressure is unimportant.

I just find it weird it works the wrong way round without apparently being
faulty.

Thinks. IIRC, there's a small valve or air bleed that goes to the chamber
above the diaphragm. Could be that's stuck. I'll have another look
tomorrow.

--
*It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <2nt477F4g9noU1@uni-berlin.de>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> You can easily check whether a bottle valve is sticking, by simply
>>>> unscrewing the regulator. If it doesn't leak it aint sticking.
>>>
>>> Not the bottle valve - the regulator.
>
>> But the regulator hasn't got any valves, so it don't make sense.
>
> It has - a spring loaded one. With a rubber diaphragm sealing its
> outlet from a second chamber. I'd guess it works by using atmospheric
> pressure as a reference.
>
>>> However, I took mine apart, and I'm confused. It is in perfect
>>> condition, but doesn't do any regulating. With it at maximum it
>>> allows no gas flow at all. On minimum, it appears to allow maximum
>>> flow - all judged by the hiss of the gas without the welder being
>>> turned on. I wonder if it's designed to work with a much higher
>>> pressure system?
>
>> Tear the label off.
>> You're confusing me now, with your maximum and minimum :-)
>
> It has arrows on the knob with + and - signs. These correspond to
> what the manual says - clockwise to turn down the flow,
> anti-clockwise to increase - like a normal water tap. But in practice
> it works in the exact opposite way -

Therefore the manual is wrong, as you've discovered. Probably a misprint.
Throw the book away, or ignore it.
So far, all it seems to be doing is adding to the confusion.

I'd say by exerting a direct
> mechanical load on the bottle valve.

The pressure regulator is there simply to keep the pressure from rising high
enough to blow the pipes or unions. when you switch the gun off.
AFAIK it's output pressure is fixed and is non adjustable.
The gas flow is controlled, as you say, by how much the bottle valve is
opened by the pin on the end of the regulator knob.

I can't
> get a consistent arc. Go to the next setting and I burn holes. I'm
> thinking I'll give it up. ;-)

A fine motto. If at first you don't succeed...... Give up.:-)

It does definitely sounds like the m/c is faulty.
I don't believe a man of your caliber<g> could be so helpless at using a
MIG. :-)

From what you've said so far. I don't think the wire feed mechanism, or the
gas regulator is the cause of the problem. In fact the gas regulator seems
to be working perfectly.
If you can regulate the gas flow, between off, and full flow, there can't be
anything wrong with it mechanically. It's just marked incorrectly.

If you cut the end of the wire, and then trail the gas nozzle along the
workpiece, actually touching it, at the lowest power setting you should be
able to strike an arc.
If the wire feed is too low you'll lose it the arc, because the wire will be
melting too quickly, and leave too great a gap to sustain the arc until the
wire feeds forward again, so you get a staccato pop pop pop pop. Or, the end
of the wire could oxydise so when the wire next strikes the job, it's
insulated from making electrical contact.
If it's too fast you'll find the wire will probably stick to the job and
just get red hot.
Preferably starting from too slow a feed, gradually increase it until you
get the frying bacon sound.
Set the gas flow as I described earlier BTW.

Maybe you've tried all the above, exactly as described. If you have and you
still find you're blowing holes, or not sustaining an arc. I think you can
safely blame the m/c.

The only way to be sure though is to have someone who can use a MIG, try it
out.
Mike.

[Rob]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <2nt477F4g9noU1@uni-berlin.de>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>>You can easily check whether a bottle valve is sticking, by simply
>>>>unscrewing the regulator. If it doesn't leak it aint sticking.
>>>
>>>Not the bottle valve - the regulator.
>
>
>>But the regulator hasn't got any valves, so it don't make sense.
>
>
> It has - a spring loaded one. With a rubber diaphragm sealing its outlet
> from a second chamber. I'd guess it works by using atmospheric pressure as
> a reference.
>
>
>>>However, I took mine apart, and I'm confused. It is in perfect
>>>condition, but doesn't do any regulating. With it at maximum it
>>>allows no gas flow at all. On minimum, it appears to allow maximum
>>>flow - all judged by the hiss of the gas without the welder being
>>>turned on. I wonder if it's designed to work with a much higher
>>>pressure system?
>
>
>>Tear the label off.
>>You're confusing me now, with your maximum and minimum :-)
>
>
> It has arrows on the knob with + and - signs. These correspond to what the
> manual says - clockwise to turn down the flow, anti-clockwise to increase
> - like a normal water tap. But in practice it works in the exact opposite
> way - I'd say by exerting a direct mechanical load on the bottle valve.
>


Screwed out it does not let gas through screwing it in should increase
the pressure/flow.

I make the assumption that the Sip does not have a regulator gauge. You
can save heaps of gas by having one and the correct flow.

If regulators have been screwed in too far they stick or you can wreck
the seals.
.................................................. .................................................. ...

Dave

Reading the thread previous the mix of gas CO2/Argon

Technical Explanation!

It depends on the application this is what's happening.

Straight argon is not desirable for MIG on carbon steel - not enough
'oomph',the welds are pretty but they sit on top and are more likely to
cold-cast.

Straight CO2 is very hot, hard to use on thin material, and plenty of
spatter. (Flux core wire does this)

You need either 25% CO2 and 75% argon, or a tri-mix which is usually
around 80% argon, 15% CO2 and 5% O2 (the mix varies by manufacturer
and purpose). Another alternative is 98% argon with 2% O2.

Straight argon is needed for aluminum, and it's usable for stainless
steel (better is the 2% O2 mix).

The bottom line is that for most hobby MIG welding 25% CO2 and 75%
argon, is the stuff you want.

So you weld thin material then more argon - thick material more CO2.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <411a15c6$0$27241$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>,
Rob <Mese@mine.com> wrote:
> Screwed out it does not let gas through screwing it in should increase
> the pressure/flow.

Then why is the knob engraved like this - which agrees with the handbook?

> I make the assumption that the Sip does not have a regulator gauge. You
> can save heaps of gas by having one and the correct flow.

I'm no expert, but it appears to be a regulator rather than just a plain
valve. It has a spring loaded rubber diaphragm which in turn operates a
valve.

--
*Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Stuffed]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdb2e297edave@davenoise.co.uk...
> What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?

Depends how infrequent, and how much you'll be using. I haven't found many
options for argoshield, it's either disposables or BOC around here. BOC
doesn't work out cheap for the odd bit of welding because of the bottle
hire, but chuck aways are bloody expensive if you've got more than a foot of
weld to do, IMO.

I use plain CO2, because I bought a 5kg bottle for 50 quid outright, and
it's 15 quid for a refill on an exchange basis, so a little more expensive
than BOC for the exchange, but compared to the bottle rental with the amount
I weld it's actually a hell of a lot cheaper. Trouble is the place I get it
from doesn't offer any other gases, but CO2 is OK, if not great.

[T.Gee]

Dave, I've used the disposables for several years. I am also an infrequent
user. When I initially bought the MIG kit (after spending so much on
contract bottle fees with BOC) I thought the disposables were far too short
lived and was punting around for an alternative. A fellow hobby restorer
gave me some advice I've been very grateful for. "Turn down the gas until it
is a just discernable hiss when the trigger is squeezed (machine 'off')"

The bottle now seems to last for ages and ages. He explained that the gas
has to merely shield the work so providing you are not working in a howling
gale this low setting is adequate. My welds seem fine and have stood the
test of time.

Hope this is of some help........ Regards Gee

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdb2e297edave@davenoise.co.uk...
> What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?
>
> --
> *Don't byte off more than you can view *
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Andy Dingley]

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 10:51:40 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>What's the cheapest way of buying this for an infrequent user?

Bite the bullet and hire the bottle. It's not cheap though.


I always found that the disposables weren't too expensive as a way of
buying gas (by volume), but that their sealing wasn't too reliable. If
you used a fraction of a bottle, then came back to it a few months
later, the bottle would have leaked and would now be empty.

--
Smert' spamionam

[Pete W.]

<snip>
> gave me some advice I've been very grateful for. "Turn down the gas until it
> is a just discernable hiss when the trigger is squeezed (machine 'off')"
>
> The bottle now seems to last for ages and ages. He explained that the gas
> has to merely shield the work so providing you are not working in a howling
> gale this low setting is adequate. My welds seem fine and have stood the
> test of time.
>
> Hope this is of some help........ Regards Gee

Good advice, but also make sure the garage doors are shut and there are no draughts;
they'll blow the gas shield away.
My SIP manual says something like, "screw the gas control knob right in then back off one
and a half turns". I put a bit of tape on it to help gauge it, but as I run out, I screw
it in a bit to use the last of the gas.
I also wire brush the two surfaces to be welded just before I start. Not strictly
necessary I know, but I find it helps.

And another thing. I noticed at one of the shows, different stands had the CO2 disposables
with different capacities, same size bottle. I never found the argon/CO2 stuff at the
larger capacity though, has anyone else?

Pete W

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Stuffed wrote:

> I use plain CO2, because I bought a 5kg bottle for 50 quid outright, and
> it's 15 quid for a refill on an exchange basis, so a little more expensive
> than BOC for the exchange, but compared to the bottle rental with the amount
> I weld it's actually a hell of a lot cheaper.

The chap replacing all the old CO2 fire extinguishers with new ones in
my place of work gave me a couple as they'd have gone into a skip
otherwise. The screw thread holding on the extinguisher cone just
happens to be the same as that on your average regulator. The method
apparently, is to fit the regulator then clamp the trigger mechanism in
its open position. I haven't used them yet as I still have most of a
large bottle to finish.
It seems that Fire Protection specialists quite often dispose of old,
but perfectly sound CO2 extinguishers, so if you have in the area...

[Mike G]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdbb13b10dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <4116e78a$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > Sounds like you might be using too much power. You can run a neat bead
> > down thinnish sheet using quite high power without melting holes in it.
> > If you try to use the same power to join 2 edges it'll overheat, melt
> > the edges, and blow holes between the plates, without joining them with
> > a continuous weld.
>
> Yup. I'm using the second lowest power setting on a Migmate Turbo 130. I
> can't seem to get it to strike on the lowest setting.

Sounds like the end of the wire might be oxydised. If so it's not actually
making contact.
Try snipping the end of the wire. While I was learning, I found that helped
a lot.
The lower the power, the better the contact needed to start arcing. Once it
arcs the melting wire easily maintains good contact.
>
> > Try turning the power and wire feed right down, then gradually increase
> > the wire feed, until you get a nice sizzle. Like frying bacon.
>
> > There is a knack. I had the same problems when I started, but once I'd
> > found it, it suddenly became easy.
>
> Yes.
>
> I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain - it stalls on
> the minimum setting and a tiny movement of the control makes it whizz out.

On the Clarke, the minimum feed speed is too low for the thinnest sheet. I
would assume your SIP is the same.

The Clarke speed control knob can rotate about 270 degrees, but in practice
I can only use the range between about 30-80 degrees.
Either side of those figures, and it's too fast or too slow for the minimum
and maximum power settings.
Within that 50 degree range though, the wire feed speed can be adjusted very
progressively and accurately.

If your SIP can't give a smooth progressive transistion from slow to fast,
even if that means fairly small movements of the speed knob, I'd suggest
there is something wrong with it.
The speed control shouldn't be too sensitive to easily achieve a suitable
speed setting.

> I bought it as the recommended one in a Practical Classics test of
several.

If it's the test I recall, it was many years ago.
Maybe your m/c has become sticky through lack of use. :-)
>
> I'll practice again with it set to minimum power and less gas flow which
> set as they recommend is costing a fortune. I've got through 4 bottles
> just practising - I doubt much more than a metre or so of welding in
total.

What!!!
I think I can confidently say your gas setting is definitely, indubitably,
and most certainly too high.:-)

Set the gas regulator on the bottle so you can only just hear the gas coming
out. If it's too low it'll be obvious. You'll just get a crappy burnt mess,
and you'll need to increase it slightly.
Also check the valve on the gun itself. If that is leaking, it could be
contributing to the excessive gas consumption.

A final thaught. I found when learning, that the inside of the gas nozzle on
the gun rapidly became gunged up with lumps of crap, from the splattering it
got from my early attempts with the wrong settings etc.
Making sure that the inside is reasonably clear should help to give a
smoother gas flow, and reduce the amount of gas needed to maintain the
shield.

Email me if you feel we're going on too much for the n/g.
Mike.

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Mike G wrote:

> If your SIP can't give a smooth progressive transistion from slow to fast,
> even if that means fairly small movements of the speed knob, I'd suggest
> there is something wrong with it.

Or perhaps the wire is slightly tangled on the reel. I'd suggest
opening/removing the side of the welder and watching how the wire feeds
with the speed turned quite low. If the reel was allowed to loosen when
it was first put on the machine, the wire could have crossed itself and
will never feed smoothly.
Incidentally, I find that large reels feed a lot more smoothly than
small ones with my Clarke.

> A final thaught. I found when learning, that the inside of the gas
nozzle on
> the gun rapidly became gunged up with lumps of crap, from the splattering it
> got from my early attempts with the wrong settings etc.

Another tip is to make sure that you always have something to rest your
hand on as you weld. Ideally, it should be in a position that allows
your hand to pivot, moving the torch through 3 or 4 inches along the
area to be joined. This is to stop your hand waving around rather than
to take its weight and can make world of difference to your results. A
welding clamp off to one side is often sufficient.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <41176157$0$529$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
DocDelete <docdelete@thehomeofnospam.org> wrote:
> There's something funny here. My cheapo Mig uses the disposable bottles
> at around 1 bottle per whole reel, even with the gas regulator wide
> open. Mind you, I find it very difficult to get a clean weld, and often
> end up overcooking the joint just so I know it's solid, then end up
> grinding to finish.

> Maybe my kit has always had some sort of blockage, or restriction due to
> poor design.

Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't need
to be switched on for this.

I'm going to check all the pipework for leaks.

--
*The e-mail of the species is more deadly than the mail *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4116e78a$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> Sounds like you might be using too much power. You can run a neat bead
> down thinnish sheet using quite high power without melting holes in it.
> If you try to use the same power to join 2 edges it'll overheat, melt
> the edges, and blow holes between the plates, without joining them with
> a continuous weld.

Yup. I'm using the second lowest power setting on a Migmate Turbo 130. I
can't seem to get it to strike on the lowest setting.

> Try turning the power and wire feed right down, then gradually increase
> the wire feed, until you get a nice sizzle. Like frying bacon. If that
> doesn't work. Have another go with the power slightly increased. Aim for
> the frying bacon noise again. A nice frying bacon sizzle sound, usually
> means a nice weld.

The trouble is I know how it should be as I used to MIG weld many years
ago, but that was with pro equipment. And I can't remember having any of
these problems.

> There is a knack. I had the same problems when I started, but once I'd
> found it, it suddenly became easy.

Yes.

I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain - it stalls on
the minimum setting and a tiny movement of the control makes it whizz out.
I bought it as the recommended one in a Practical Classics test of several.

I'll practice again with it set to minimum power and less gas flow which
set as they recommend is costing a fortune. I've got through 4 bottles
just practising - I doubt much more than a metre or so of welding in total.

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Andy Dingley]

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:43:17 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain

So why did you buy a SIP ? They were slagged off in front of you, but
you knew better. Now _after_ you've bought one, you find they're as
bad as you were told.

Oh, and your gas valve is stuck. That's the other common fault.


--
Smert' spamionam

[DocDelete]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdbc2e4a8dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <41176157$0$529$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,

> Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't need
> to be switched on for this.

Yes, and quite a healthy hiss I think ;-)

If I leave the cylinder regulator open the system does leak down, so the
trigger mechanism must be a bit cheap / naff. I always make sure that the
regulator is turned off at the end of each session. I failed to do this once
and lost a complete cylinder over a few days of non-use.

--
Ken Davidson
DocDelete


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 29/07/04

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <umveh097v8cfegfh65gokitud29nu5cllq@4ax.com>,
Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote:
> >I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain

> So why did you buy a SIP ? They were slagged off in front of you, but
> you knew better. Now _after_ you've bought one, you find they're as
> bad as you were told.

I'd bought it *before* some slagged it off. And you might be happy
accepting a total stranger's word as gospel on something over a mag like
Practical Classics, but I'm not. Others were also happy to recommend
it.

> Oh, and your gas valve is stuck. That's the other common fault.

On investigation, it appears to work in reverse.

--
*60-year-old, one owner - needs parts, make offer

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
DocDelete <docdelete@thehomeofnospam.org> wrote:
> > Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't
> > need to be switched on for this.

> Yes, and quite a healthy hiss I think ;-)

> If I leave the cylinder regulator open the system does leak down, so the
> trigger mechanism must be a bit cheap / naff. I always make sure that
> the regulator is turned off at the end of each session. I failed to do
> this once and lost a complete cylinder over a few days of non-use.

Is yours a Migmate?

The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

--
*According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <umveh097v8cfegfh65gokitud29nu5cllq@4ax.com>,
> Andy Dingley <dingbat@codesmiths.com> wrote:
>>> I find adjusting the wire feed speed on the SIP is a pain
>
>> So why did you buy a SIP ? They were slagged off in front of you,
>> but you knew better. Now _after_ you've bought one, you find they're
>> as bad as you were told.
>
> I'd bought it *before* some slagged it off. And you might be happy
> accepting a total stranger's word as gospel on something over a mag
> like Practical Classics, but I'm not. Others were also happy to
> recommend it.

A better reason than I had to buy my Clarke 100E.
The Pillar eng'g rep (Now Buck & Hickman) offered it to me because a
customer had tried it and given it back, so technically it was s/h, but
AFAIC it was new. Having only had a few hrs of use at most.
He'd just picked it up, and it was in the back of his car.
He offered it to me for £100. The list price at the time was £147, so I
snapped it up.
Came with an almost full bottle of gas as well, which wasn't included with a
new m/c.
Up until then, I'd been doing all my welding with a SIP arc welder, but the
MIG was more suitable for many of the smaller jobs I was doing at the time.

You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming welding
helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
http://tinyurl.com/4fft9
Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat. Probably not as well made as the ones
costing anything up to £200, but who cares, as long as it does the job.
Far easier than holding the provided shield, or even a plain flip up helmet.
I'm not on commision BTW.:-)
I just think they're good value.
Mike.



>
>> Oh, and your gas valve is stuck. That's the other common fault.
>
> On investigation, it appears to work in reverse.

[Rob]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <411a15c6$0$27241$61ce578d@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>,
> Rob <Mese@mine.com> wrote:
>
>>Screwed out it does not let gas through screwing it in should increase
>>the pressure/flow.
>
>
> Then why is the knob engraved like this - which agrees with the handbook?
>
>
>>I make the assumption that the Sip does not have a regulator gauge. You
>>can save heaps of gas by having one and the correct flow.
>
>
> I'm no expert, but it appears to be a regulator rather than just a plain
> valve. It has a spring loaded rubber diaphragm which in turn operates a
> valve.
>

Is there a plug in the side which you can fit a gauge. Not sure who
around here has Sip stuff anymore I have a look tho and see what happens.

I have a CIG mig welder 195 and a proper regulator and run a Argon/CO2
mix suitable for light metal. Usually run the thing at 120/150 amps
with .8mm wire (which I can just about run at 100% duty cycle.) The
bottle size is E which has 4.2 cubic metres of gas and this lasts about
4 hours welding. The composition Argoshield 52 is 25% CO2 and 75% Argon.

rm

[T.Gee]

For what it is worth I always disconnect my regulator (unscrew it
completely) between sessions. As already stated in earlier post, my
disposables last well, not sure about consumption but I don't think I use
more than say 2 disposables per reel of wire although I've been surprised
how much welding I get from a reel. Before I bought my set I was told I'd
need to use the "Big" reels but found this not so. Regards Gee


"DocDelete" <docdelete@thehomeofnospam.org> wrote in message
news:41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net...
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4cdbc2e4a8dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article <41176157$0$529$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net>,
>
> > Can you hear the gas hissing when you pull the trigger? Mine doesn't
need
> > to be switched on for this.
>
> Yes, and quite a healthy hiss I think ;-)
>
> If I leave the cylinder regulator open the system does leak down, so the
> trigger mechanism must be a bit cheap / naff. I always make sure that the
> regulator is turned off at the end of each session. I failed to do this
once
> and lost a complete cylinder over a few days of non-use.
>
> --
> Ken Davidson
> DocDelete
>

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4117c198$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > I'd bought it *before* some slagged it off. And you might be happy
> > accepting a total stranger's word as gospel on something over a mag
> > like Practical Classics, but I'm not. Others were also happy to
> > recommend it.

> A better reason than I had to buy my Clarke 100E.
> The Pillar eng'g rep (Now Buck & Hickman) offered it to me because a
> customer had tried it and given it back, so technically it was s/h, but
> AFAIC it was new. Having only had a few hrs of use at most.
> He'd just picked it up, and it was in the back of his car.
> He offered it to me for £100. The list price at the time was £147, so I
> snapped it up.

I got the Migmate new off Ebay, for about the cheapest I could find it
anywhere, but *without* VAT. And the carriage was good value too. IIRC,
140 total - sent direct from the 'factory'. About a couple of years ago,
but never got round to using it.

> Came with an almost full bottle of gas as well, which wasn't included
> with a new m/c. Up until then, I'd been doing all my welding with a SIP
> arc welder, but the MIG was more suitable for many of the smaller jobs I
> was doing at the time.

> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat. Probably
> not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200, but who cares,
> as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding the provided shield,
> or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on commision BTW.:-) I just
> think they're good value.

I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the ordinary
type. Skill, I suppose.

--
*If at first you don't succeed, try management *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <4117c198$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:

>> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
>> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
>> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat.
>> Probably not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200,
>> but who cares, as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding
>> the provided shield, or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on
>> commision BTW.:-) I just think they're good value.
>
> I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the
> ordinary type. Skill, I suppose.

Definitely skill, says he after welding for years without one.
Nah. My welds still don't look as neat as those done by a professional, but
I'd guarantee that they're as strong. Mine just need a little more fettling
with an angle grinder.:-)
Mike.

[Dave Skirrow]

>
>> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
>> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
>> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat. Probably
>> not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200, but who cares,
>> as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding the provided shield,
>> or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on commision BTW.:-) I just
>> think they're good value.
>
> I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the ordinary
> type. Skill, I suppose.
>



So these cheap helmets are ok are they? I have wanted one of these for a
while but keep putting it off as I'm scared the cheap ones will be crap.

I'm still using the handheld thing that came with my welder.

By the way, I use a Migmate 130 as despite what a couple of people have
been saying I think it is great. I haven't used any other welders though,
but this seems to do the job very well.

Wire feed is improved if you use one of the bigger wire coils, about £10-12
and I disconnect the gas if I'm not gonna be using mine the next day.

Dave

[DocDelete]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4cdbd8dea1dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,

> Is yours a Migmate?

Good question - it's about 8 years old, budget model, I think it's a migmate
130 (does that make sense?) - orange case, black front, bottle at back with
a fabric strap, wire speed control, current controls are basically two
switches A/B 1/2 yielding a matrix of 4 different settings?

> The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
> shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
> opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

I can't remember, but the manual was next to useless. The regulator has a
little "narrowing wedge" marked on it to indicate how far open it is.

It's given me average performance despite my lack of skill with it - but I
have had to persevere with...

New nozzle needed 12 months ago, old one fatigue sheered at the where the
tip screws in - cost a very unreasonable £24 from the (local) manufacturer.
Consider this against the purchase price of £100 (shop display unit).

Trigger mechanism is now dodgy with use - needs regular dismantling to cure
wire snags etc.

Wire tension control plastic hinge broke within moments of first use - fixed
with a large washer and self-tapper.

If I'm not careful about wrapping the dormant unit in polythene, or at least
the wire reel, the wire oxidises making welding impossible (not a fault of
the unit obviously, just an observation).

I regularly blast the gas shroud with antispatter spray whilst welding, this
avoids the need to keep unbunging the tip or clearing the shroud every ten
mins. (I got the spray from www.screwfix.com).

I can tell when I've got a good weld "on the run" 'cos the unit overheats
just as I'm getting good! It takes around ten mins to reset :-(

Bottom line is that the unit needs care even for low usage, but then again
it would've been entirely inappropriate for me to have bought dearer
equipment, my welding is //that// bad ;-)) Put another way: every time I
finish the welding task in hand I mutter a "never again" to myself - bit
like binge drinking.

--
Ken Davidson
DocDelete


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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[Mike G]

Dave Skirrow wrote:
>>> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
>>> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
>>> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat.
>>> Probably not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200,
>>> but who cares, as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding
>>> the provided shield, or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on
>>> commision BTW.:-) I just think they're good value.
>>
>> I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the
>> ordinary type. Skill, I suppose.
>
> So these cheap helmets are ok are they? I have wanted one of these
> for a while but keep putting it off as I'm scared the cheap ones will
> be crap.

The only criticism I have of mine, is that the flip clamping knobs. The ones
that hold the helmet in the open position, could do to be stronger and
better made.
The plastic knobs with plastic screws, are barely strong enough to hold the
helmet open. A slight movement of the head and it'll flip down again. I
cured that on mine by making new knobs that fitted the screw better, and
allowed them to be screwed tighter, but obviously that's not an easy mod to
make if you haven't the right tools.

Apart from that the helmet works perfectly, and considering the cost of most
of these type of helmets, is still very cheap for a helmet that does the job
as well as the ones costing several times the price.

Maybe if I were buying another I'd go for this one:-
http://tinyurl.com/3pmh5

Looks to be better made, but not that much more expensive.
Works out at about £55 inc shipping, at the $59.99 Buy it now price.
It also has the advantage of being solar powered, as against the 4 AAA
batteries needed by the one I have.
Mike.

[Mike G]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <41179401$0$553$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
>
> The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
> shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
> opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

I think you'll find they all work that way.
The bottle has a valve that must be depressed to open it. The knob has a r/h
thread, so turning clockwise screws a pin into the bottle opening the valve.
I suppose they could have used a l/h thread, but in general r/h threads are
cheaper to manufacture. R/h thread tooling being cheaper to buy, than l/h
OTOH stick on labels are the same price, whichever way the arrow points. :-)
Mike.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4118ac9f$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
> > The valve on mine appears to work in reverse. Fully anti clockwise it
> > shuts off the gas - fully clockwise it's full (or nearly) full on. The
> > opposite of what both the handbook and arrows on the valve say.

> I think you'll find they all work that way. The bottle has a valve that
> must be depressed to open it. The knob has a r/h thread, so turning
> clockwise screws a pin into the bottle opening the valve. I suppose they
> could have used a l/h thread, but in general r/h threads are cheaper to
> manufacture. R/h thread tooling being cheaper to buy, than l/h OTOH
> stick on labels are the same price, whichever way the arrow points. :-)
> Mike.

Hmm. Both the handbook - useless - and the arrows on the knob indicate it
is clockwise to reduce the flow, anti-clockwise to increase. The handbook
says to start with it fully clockwise, then unscrew about 1/2 turn. This
results in my getting through a bottle of gas in a few minutes...

Andy Dingley in a very helpful post ;-) indicated that these valves often
stick. I'll take it apart (if I can) in a few minutes and see what's what.

--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Willy Eckerslyke]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Andy Dingley in a very helpful post ;-) indicated that these valves often
> stick. I'll take it apart (if I can) in a few minutes and see what's what.

I expect I still have my original small bottle adaptor knocking about
somewhere if you want it. It'll be a Clarke one, but that shouldn't
matter as long as yours uses a push fit onto the pipe.
I have to warn you though, that it was never perfect. If it was screwed
tight onto the bottle, the valve would be too stiff to turn. Slightly
loose and it was fine, though I did always undo it completely to avoid
leakage when not using the machine.

[Chris Morriss]

In message <4cdbf370fddave@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <4117c198$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>,
> Mike G <mikgibbs at tiscali dot co dot uk> wrote:
>> > I'd bought it *before* some slagged it off. And you might be happy
>> > accepting a total stranger's word as gospel on something over a mag
>> > like Practical Classics, but I'm not. Others were also happy to
>> > recommend it.
>
>> A better reason than I had to buy my Clarke 100E.
>> The Pillar eng'g rep (Now Buck & Hickman) offered it to me because a
>> customer had tried it and given it back, so technically it was s/h, but
>> AFAIC it was new. Having only had a few hrs of use at most.
>> He'd just picked it up, and it was in the back of his car.
>> He offered it to me for £100. The list price at the time was £147, so I
>> snapped it up.
>
>I got the Migmate new off Ebay, for about the cheapest I could find it
>anywhere, but *without* VAT. And the carriage was good value too. IIRC,
>140 total - sent direct from the 'factory'. About a couple of years ago,
>but never got round to using it.
>
>> Came with an almost full bottle of gas as well, which wasn't included
>> with a new m/c. Up until then, I'd been doing all my welding with a SIP
>> arc welder, but the MIG was more suitable for many of the smaller jobs I
>> was doing at the time.
>
>> You might be interested. I recently baught an automatically dimming
>> welding helmet. £39 on ebay, inc P&P. The same as this one:-
>> http://tinyurl.com/4fft9 Marvellous bit of kit. Works a treat. Probably
>> not as well made as the ones costing anything up to £200, but who cares,
>> as long as it does the job. Far easier than holding the provided shield,
>> or even a plain flip up helmet. I'm not on commision BTW.:-) I just
>> think they're good value.
>
>I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the ordinary
>type. Skill, I suppose.
>

I use one of those outdoor 300W halogen lights when I'm welding, shining
straight onto the workpiece. You can see what you're doing then even
through a standard arc-welding mask.
--
Chris Morriss

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <fNLzJ1Noe7GBFw9$@oroboros.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Morriss <crsm@oroboros.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the
> >ordinary type. Skill, I suppose.
> >

> I use one of those outdoor 300W halogen lights when I'm welding, shining
> straight onto the workpiece. You can see what you're doing then even
> through a standard arc-welding mask.

I was thinking along these lines. I'll give it a go.

--
*Husbands should come with instructions

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Chris Morriss]

In message <4cdd8c6782dave@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <fNLzJ1Noe7GBFw9$@oroboros.demon.co.uk>,
> Chris Morriss <crsm@oroboros.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> >I've already got one. ;-) Just dunno how anyone manages with the
>> >ordinary type. Skill, I suppose.
>> >
>
>> I use one of those outdoor 300W halogen lights when I'm welding, shining
>> straight onto the workpiece. You can see what you're doing then even
>> through a standard arc-welding mask.
>
>I was thinking along these lines. I'll give it a go.
>

Make sure it's got a strong glass face plate, it'll get a lot of spatter
on it.
--
Chris Morriss

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <yafIMwA+iPHBFwxs@oroboros.demon.co.uk>,
Chris Morriss <crsm@oroboros.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> I use one of those outdoor 300W halogen lights when I'm welding,
> >> shining straight onto the workpiece. You can see what you're doing
> >> then even through a standard arc-welding mask.
> >
> >I was thinking along these lines. I'll give it a go.
> >

> Make sure it's got a strong glass face plate, it'll get a lot of spatter
> on it.

Yes - although if it can stand the heat of a 300 watt QI bubble, it should
be ok.

--
*Does fuzzy logic tickle? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[TSwede]

Dear All - I am new to the forum and found it when searching for some recommended settings for the Migmate 130 - I notice some of you have had good results with one..

As you are aware there are 3 switches on the front but it's difficult to figure out what the combinations mean and of course then there's the wire feed speed and the wire tensioner...

Would those who are getting good results on thin car steel post some their settings?? then I could use them as a starting point - I have fiddled with it but could do with a push

Many thanks

Tony